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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Ottersmacker wrote:
Regarding jobs, to some extent i would say that in the event of real necessity, a state can employ everyone who is willing to work ("job guarantee" is a good search term), in fact i think it should because it provides labour for stuff like infrastructure upgrades and also provides a basic income to those who need it. There is always stuff that needs to be done, might as well put people to work. After all, the unemployed are factually in the public sector just as they would be as JG workers - the difference being that when unemployed, they are 1) not producing anything but still consuming stuff; 2) not boosting overall sales etc in the economy because of fail income.


I doubt this should occur in any way in a well managed state, and we saw how well it worked for the soviet union but regardless, that can only happen if the state that employs all of its people issues its own fiat, or there would be no money to pay the workers.

What we see atm is both simple and complicated. The simple part is that public wealth is transferred to private parties. For instance, if a state destroys jobs, and maintains a constant 20% unemployment rate while handing out rather generous unemployment compensations, the private sector benefits from massive unemployment, thus lower salaries (ppl in dire need accept hard jobs for shit money) while it's the average worker that on top of having a shit income, pays with taxes for the unemployed, thus avoiding a revolt and maintaining the status quo (cut the compensation to 5 Millions unemployed ppl and you're good for a revolution). Don't even get me started on private bailouts with public money.

The complicated, imbricated part is that if a state needs more money to function because it has a growing debt service to pay, the inflation is high etc. it will raise taxes. If taxes are raised people have less to spend everyday. People lose their jobs (that holidays booking store doesn't work as well as it used to). The state gets less taxes from the employed and spends more on unemployed ppl. Then it will need to raise taxes on private companies as well. Until some point where the companies move out to more fiscally easy lands. More unemployment. I think there is no real conspiracy from this point of view because at the end of the day nobody benefits from all this, we all lose. Except shareholders on short term, and warmongers on long term maybe.

There is maybe no magical solution to this downard spiral as politicians like to claim; but I think there are simple emergency fixes to apply tho : borrow to yourself or else at 0-1% so debt service doesn't grow exponentially, stop spending in wars and shit.

But the pressure from lobbies must be too strong apparently.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:22 pm 
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The idea of the job guarantee is to be a buffer for tough times, the proponents of it estimate that during good times, maybe a maximum of 2-3% of workers would be on JG and the others would have regular jobs, preferrably in the private sector. And yes, obviously it is designed to work in a country that issues it's own currency so it is not restricted by EZ-like nonsense.

What you describe as the complicated part is again solved by a country issuing its own currency. If that happens, suddenly taxes no longer have the function of 'filling them coffers' but merely are 1) a mechanism that guarantees the value of money; 2) a political lever for adjusting the purchasing power of the population. The effect is huge because growth won't be halted, money won't be taken away from people etc in search for some abstract 'balance'.

and yes, fuck neoliberalism.

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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:20 pm 
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What can go wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:40 am 
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Update of the situation :

Heavy bank runs in Greece and Spain
Italy's Equitalia, the state tax-collection agency is being attacked with molotov cocktails, its employees agressed etc.
Imminent nationalization of France's biggest (but not famous) real estate company (mortgage business etc.) and of Spanish and Greek banks
Spain and Italy's borrowing rates over 6% on 10 years, Germany not so much : 1,42%...
Ireland banks need another bailout quickly

It's degrading really quickly, however we can reasonably expect the govs to print their ass off to avoid the real shit hitting the fan (like no money left for the police and army) so we'll see how long that holds. And to raise taxes to extreme levels (if that's not the case already).


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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Ottersmacker wrote:
The idea of the job guarantee is to be a buffer for tough times, the proponents of it estimate that during good times, maybe a maximum of 2-3% of workers would be on JG and the others would have regular jobs, preferrably in the private sector. And yes, obviously it is designed to work in a country that issues it's own currency so it is not restricted by EZ-like nonsense.

What you describe as the complicated part is again solved by a country issuing its own currency. If that happens, suddenly taxes no longer have the function of 'filling them coffers' but merely are 1) a mechanism that guarantees the value of money; 2) a political lever for adjusting the purchasing power of the population. The effect is huge because growth won't be halted, money won't be taken away from people etc in search for some abstract 'balance'.

and yes, fuck neoliberalism.


Implementing such schemes would require not only competent leaders but a competent public service as well as better forms of accountability for those behind the scenes running the show. (or possibly require the relevant minister to actually take some responsibly for failures again)

I've been reading about neuroscience recently, a book called "brain bugs", in short it relates studies and findings about the inner workings of the brain and relates them to real world modern day scenarios. Advertising, decision making, lack of human ability to comprehend long term meaning and consequences and even politics.

Anyway it had a very interesting section regarding the importance we place on different things, for example the lack of importance we place on choosing a political leader compared to the importance we put on the training we require for one to get a licence. In the former one turns 18 & can vote whilst in the latter one must spend weeks practicing. Yet the former in many respects poses a far greater responsibility compared to driving. yet for some reason our brains simply can't comprehend in a substantive way the vast descriptancy that exists, we somehow feel ok with this status quo. He explains that it has to do with evolution in the sense that prehisotoric man was short sighted in the way he thought. It was about surviving day to day. And that the ability to really comprehend years or even months has not really developed meaning the decisions (and how justified we feel about them) we make in the world are still made in the same way.

Good thing about the book though is that he goes further than these broad statements and links concepts to actual studies.

My point being otter, that it is hard enough to get someone to reason against their inherent brain biases, ( inherent short term thinking as the baseline), let alone get the masses to do it. Maybe we're better off taking our chances with a single person in power instead of swapping governments every 3 years? Probably not although things would likely be more efficient

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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Chunky Milk wrote:
Maybe we're better off taking our chances with a single person in power instead of swapping governments every 3 years? Probably not although things would likely be more efficient


I have to agree with this to a certain degree. Democratic governments are designed to perform better in the short run, as they usually face elections within a few years time. As the voters are usually short-sighted, even a leader with grand vision has to cope with the electoral realities to make decisions that would show effect very quickly rather than those that may be more beneficial in the long run. Even if those governments continue in office after another election without having to consider being reelected, they then lose the incentive to perform.

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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:01 pm 
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fucking nazis in greece what in the fuck

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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:04 pm 
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austerity causing retarded governments to get into power is exactly how WW2 started. good luck erryone hope you all still have your shelters!

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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Tbh this greek nazi party smells fishy.

I'd very much like to know who they get their funding from.


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 Post subject: Re: EUROPEAN PPL RALLY NOW
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:53 pm 
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france

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